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Thread: Rattle noise in pump

  1. #1

    Rattle noise in pump

    Still checking things over between storms and work...

    The rattle that I initially thought to be a u-joint seems to be coming from the pump. That is what it sounds like. The u-joint appears fine visually. Looks nice and clean. But that may still turn out to be the problem.

    The pump was completely out of grease. So I am concerned that I may have to get into the pump. Is it possible for the rattle to come from the pump even though the front seal is not leaking and the grease has been refilled at the nozzle?

    What kind of costs are involved in a rebuild or replacement. The info at Pantherjets is very limited. But I have ordered a manual and bushing kits etc..

    Also, the former owner idled it dry many times, and I did hear some guys on another forum saying you can do that with a Panther. Please tell me that's true
    Oh for cryin out loud... the boat's name is Princess! Are you happy now?

  2. #2

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    unbolt the rear housing (4 bolts and 1 in steering shaft and 1 in arm for reverse bucket) check the large nut that holds the impeller on the shaft. You can grab the impeller and rock it back and forth to see if the shaft moves as you turn it by hand. You can also have a look at the DU Bushing in the tail, see if it is excessively worn. Tom at JetBoat performance stocks parts for Panthers as well as Panther!
    It's Impossible to Lose Your Footing, If Your On Your Knees"

  3. #3
    CEO, Jet Boat Performance
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Atascadero , California
    Posts
    652

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Still checking things over between storms and work...

    The rattle that I initially thought to be a u-joint seems to be coming from the pump. That is what it sounds like. The u-joint appears fine visually. Looks nice and clean. But that may still turn out to be the problem.
    Jet Drives , when run out of the water (or sometimes@idle) will set up what we call "Machine noise" which is a product of a heavy impeller (stainless in Panther) and some wear or loosness in the fit between the jet drive shaft and mating driveline splines , this noise will typically disapate with a load on the impeller (slight acceleration) if not it could be developing Jet front bearing issues

    The pump was completely out of grease. So I am concerned that I may have to get into the pump. Is it possible for the rattle to come from the pump even though the front seal is not leaking and the grease has been refilled at the nozzle?
    This is definatley not good , the Panthers dont take grease but rather the front dual Timken bearings run in about 3 ounces of 90 wt gear oil , if this is gone it suggest seal and likley bearing
    issues




    Maybe post up more follow up questions , for the folks here or myself I'll be out for a couple days but am taking my Lap Top so I'll be be keeping an eye on this thread as well as others Tom





    What kind of costs are involved in a rebuild or replacement. The info at Pantherjets is very limited. But I have ordered a manual and bushing kits etc..

    Also, the former owner idled it dry many times, and I did hear some guys on another


    None of these jets should be run out of the water if avoidable Rebuilds are simple and parts are readily available and we do stock most anything you might need ....



  4. #4

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Thanks guys...

    Actually, I found out that Panthers do take grease at the back of the pump inside the nozzle. And they will hold about 25-40 pumps depending on the gun according to Panther Jets. But that is completely dry... I put in 50-60 pumps, so the former owner obviously did not know either.

    Even though it was empty. Only God knows how long, it at least came up solid when it was finally full, so the seal is intact.

    The 3 0z of 90 wt gear oil is full at the front of the pump, and though it is kinda grey, it appears alright. Needs to be changed, but not low, and not thick, and not white.

    78 Tahiti seems to think it may be a loose nut on the impeller I hope that is all... and that the shaft and key are not worn. I will know this Sat when I pull it apart and give the verdict. A friend has offerred to help machine work if the key shaft and impeller are worn badly.

    I like the spline slap talk... that's even better!

    Thanks for confirming to not run them dry. I heard conflicting answers on that elsewhere...

    Any tips on putting water to the pump with a garden hose?
    Oh for cryin out loud... the boat's name is Princess! Are you happy now?

  5. #5

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    well, panthers dont run a wear ring like the mixed flow pumps do (berk, domi, legend) So, as long as there is nothing physicaly wrong with the pump (impeller nut cutting its way into the housing) you can hook a garden hose to the "engine" where the water supply line comes in from the transom. Its never a good idea to run a pump out of the water at high rpm's or for extended periods of time.
    It's Impossible to Lose Your Footing, If Your On Your Knees"

  6. #6

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Got some parts today (including DU bushing and seal), so we'll see what's in there tommorrow. The Manual was a big help. Answered several important questions for me. It also indicates that the pump can be run dry as long as the DU bushing is greased. And a friend offerred to help with machining if the key, impeller, and shaft are worn from rattling around. I'll be sure and let you guys know the verdict.

    Thanks for all the help!!

    Oh for cryin out loud... the boat's name is Princess! Are you happy now?

  7. #7

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Well... I pulled it apart today and put in a new DU bushing and seal. Everything looked very good in there. Did some very minor filing on the impeller, but the clearances were good.

    The nut on the impeller was loose, but not terribly so. The key is still pretty tight. I didn't need a puller to remove the impeller, but it didn't just slide off without some wiggling either.

    That is not where the rattle wass coming from. Turns out that it is the U-joint afterall. After tightening the impeller nut, I grabbed the impeller and watched the u-joint assembly as I moved it back and forth. THAT'S where the slop is. I would have caught it before, but I am a crappy mechanic!

    So, we'll be pulling the motor in due course, but I wanted it out to clean things up a bit anyway.
    Oh for cryin out loud... the boat's name is Princess! Are you happy now?

  8. #8

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    glad to hear it! As you found out! To me popping the exit housing off, is not very difficult, and guarantees you will find the problem! One of the things I highly recomend on the impeller area. Is go to a Napa Auto Parts or any supplier that you can get "Loctite Stud & Bearing Mount" it is the strongest retaining compound available! Use about 6 drops on the key & shaft before you reinstall the impeller, then about 4 drops on the threads where the nut goes.
    It's Impossible to Lose Your Footing, If Your On Your Knees"

  9. #9
    CEO, Jet Boat Performance
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Atascadero , California
    Posts
    652

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Re The Drive line , this "grumbling" was what we commonly refer to as "machine noise" common in jet drive and worse in pumps with heavy impellers (Bronze and Stainless) its due to a combined wear in the drive line female splines and pump shaft output splines sometimes replaceing the driveline takes care of most of it , FYI Were extricating a Panther right now at the shop to replace with a Berkeley Hybrid and will have not only the newly rebuilt (by Panther) jet with thier trim for sale but also the dive line Tom

  10. #10

    Re: Rattle noise in pump

    Quote Originally Posted by jetboatperformance link=topic=571.msg5121#msg5121 date=1298867663
    Re The Drive line , this "grumbling" was what we commonly refer to as "machine noise" common in jet drive and worse in pumps with heavy impellers (Bronze and Stainless) its due to a combined wear in the drive line female splines and pump shaft output splines sometimes replaceing the driveline takes care of most of it , FYI Were extricating a Panther right now at the shop to replace with a Berkeley Hybrid and will have not only the newly rebuilt (by Panther) jet with thier trim for sale but also the dive line Tom
    Thanks Tom, I missed that info in your last post. Because of the grease issue, I thought you were confusing a panther with another brand. Makes sense now.

    I will check it out. If I do need a shaft, and I go that far with a 32 yr old pump, I might as well change the bearing and two seals as well.

    What would the cost be for the shaft, bearing, and two seals?

    And what about the driveline assembly?
    Oh for cryin out loud... the boat's name is Princess! Are you happy now?

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