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treeman
03-18-2012, 05:59 PM
I am looking to purchase a small craft that has a panther pump knowing nothing about them i did a search and this forum poped up.
so basically i have experiance with jetski pumps and know there is alot of room for improvement in this area basically if i buy this boat i will be looking for about 10 more mph and the owner said that he thought the pump was de tuned for this application so im trying to find out possibley what might have been done to it or what i can do to it to get more out of it thanks for any info sorry for being so vague but havent bought it yet can be a little more detailed once i have it in my posession thanks again.....

David
03-18-2012, 06:37 PM
Hey treeman welcome to VintageJetBoats.com!

Here's a thread that 78_Tahiti has done... He's really familiar with the Panther Pump
I'm sure he'll chime in here too...

http://www.vintagejetboats.com/showthread.php?2923-Panther-Pumps-is-different-a-good-thing

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-18-2012, 07:27 PM
Rob can post up too! He has a clean kitten....

roblock
03-18-2012, 08:44 PM
Treeman, 78Tahiti will have lots of advice for sure. He's da man! But we will need to know what kind of HP you are dealing with, and how heavy the boat is. With that info, you can figure out if you are performing up to par. Then, you can see about increasing speed or fixing any efficiency issues.

I love my panther pump but mostly because I am trying to get off cheap by going with the 'vintage' (ie. original equipment) theme. I have too many irons in the fire for my pay grade. But they are fine depending on what you want. Parts are still available from pantherjets, and Tom at jetboatperformance sells a really killer bolt on bowl. So you have options.

I have an AMC 360 with 235 HP. My boat is 17' and a pretty heavy layup, but still a relatively light boat. Im right where I should be on the charts below at 53MPH +/- and 4200-4300RPM. The only way i will get more speed is with more HP, and possibly tightening up tolerances in the pump. But my pump is in really good shape inside.

It is a bit confusing at first, but study these charts and you should get an idea of whether you are where you shoul be. I hope they are readable...

3630

3631

roblock
03-18-2012, 08:50 PM
Rob can post up too! He has a clean kitten....

Kinda pushy ain'tcha? :smile:

78_Tahiti
03-18-2012, 10:33 PM
First off Welcome to Vintage JetBoats.com Treeman! Good info Rob! In a nutshell, Panther makes a good, very low maintainance, durable, High Volume, Low Pressure, Axial Flow Pump. They perform very well "out of the hole" when in good shape. There are only a few options out there, as far as a trim device (Panthervator) or improving the Speed via Aluminum/Bronze insert or an Excellerator Kit (transforms the back half to High pressure mixed flow & uses berkley style parts) How this boat responds to any of these upgrades, are the same as any JetBoat. That being the boats weight, Hull Shape & condition, Engine HP (more importantly the torque curve) How much weight you carry with you, How the boat rides in the water! The Axial flow pumps work best on the bigger boats, days cruisers and the like. The smaller lighter jet boats show much greater speed & handling improvents when using the mixed flow pumps. Post up what brand of hull, its length, Engine data. Then we can tell you pretty close, what to expect out of it on the water. 10mph increase in top speed is a pretty large upgrade if the pump and engine are in good running condition all ready.

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-19-2012, 07:55 PM
Kinda pushy ain'tcha? :smile:
You even custom painted the cover man!! It was a compliment...besides, I know you panther guys like to get a little love now and then too!

treeman
03-19-2012, 07:59 PM
well thanks for all the responses i did just purchase it but its not in my possesion yet in about two weeks it will be delivered :happy2:

I did however get a little more info from the guy who has it

Length 158 inches
Width 53 inches
Height 64 inches
Dry Weight 1600 pounds

Cylinders V-8
Displacement 350 CI (5.7 litre)
Crankshaft Power Rating 310
Bore and Stroke 4.00 In X 3.48 In
Compression Ratio 9.4:1
Peak Torque (lb-ft) 358 @ 3200 RPM
Ignition Delco Electronic
Carburetion Holly
Full Throttle Operation 4600-5000 RPM
and suppossedly this set up does 60 mph as is but the owner keeps saying that the guy de tuned it due to ins...he had to keep it at 60 or slower when building it and i know about hull design and weight and how it sits on the water pump hp and other things all will affect the speed basically what i was curious about was to see if there was any room for improvement with theese pumps
I know i can throw more hp at it but i like to get things running to there full potential before diveng into the motor...just to give an example of my last creation

a stock ski running 69 mph at 7,700 rpm
got its bottom massaged
pump and intake grate reworked
tweaked the impeller the results
got same ski now running 94 at 8,500 rpm
but back to the point


I did look at the charts and it does look like theese pumps like lower rpm range Im going to try to contact the manufacturer of this motor to find out about its true rpm range3200 seems kinda low to me.

sorry for long post just a little excited about new toy :biggrin:

roblock
03-19-2012, 08:05 PM
You even custom painted the cover man!! It was a compliment...besides, I know you panther guys like to get a little love now and then too!

Very true, very true...
You know, since David left us (like a bad habit), it is nice to have some company in the childrens corner :party0019:

I actually didn't even see this thread until you pointed it out. So I appriciate it. Bout time I give back some info instead of only asking for knowhow.

btw, the cover paint was only on one side. It wasn't going to hold up, so I stuck polished stainless strips on each side.

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-19-2012, 08:08 PM
Congrats man! Enjoy the new toy and keep us up to date!!

roblock
03-19-2012, 08:24 PM
Thinkin you should be about 5000rpm for 60MPH, but your peak torque probably is right @3200. And off the top of my head, that should put your HP peak right in the full throttle operating numbers you got @4600-5000 and 310 HP.

I'm jealous... would love to get up to 300 HP. Anybody got 65 ponies laying around?:biggrin:

Enjoy!!! If it actually runs as advertized you got a good unit that's right about where it should be. Get some pics up as soon as possible. We love pictures around here... :rockwoot:

treeman
03-19-2012, 08:31 PM
Thinkin you should be about 5000rpm for 60MPH, but your peak torque probably is right @3200. And off the top of my head, that should put your HP peak right in the full throttle operating numbers you got @4600-5000 and 310 HP.

I'm jealous... would love to get up to 300 HP. Anybody got 65 ponies laying around?:biggrin:

Enjoy!!! If it actually runs as advertized you got a good unit that's right about where it should be. Get some pics up as soon as possible. We love pictures around here... :rockwoot:
best i can do right now enjoy

treeman
03-19-2012, 08:43 PM
:smile::smile:

David
03-19-2012, 08:54 PM
Now it's clear... I was thinking 13'? Really?? Somebody needs to go to tape measure school!!! Now I get it...
Man with a Berk in that and get that SBC twisting up some R's that thing would FLY!!!
But as said before at a certain point the Panther just stops putting out...

Sleek Freak
03-19-2012, 10:30 PM
Now it's clear... I was thinking 13'? Really?? Somebody needs to go to tape measure school!!! Now I get it...
Man with a Berk in that and get that SBC twisting up some R's that thing would FLY!!!
But as said before at a certain point the Panther just stops putting out...


David I think I married a Panther

78_Tahiti
03-19-2012, 10:47 PM
David I think I married a Panther
That Makes 2 of us Sleek! LOL!
Panther worked very closely with Wetski to allow their hull design & the Panther Pump to work well with each other. Heres a link for those who don't know what a wetski is: http://www.westskiwatercraft.com/

Depending on the Pump options installed on your pump. The biggest hurdle for higher speeds with a Panther, is the Intake is actually a little to agressive. I can go into more detail as well as things Panther experimented with, and still holds patents on, yet never produced for the public.

treeman
03-20-2012, 04:02 AM
Sleek kinda my thoughts exactly if all else fails

And Tahiti what pump options??? On panthers site I only see 2 diff pumps.

P.S.
my wife might be a panther to when she sees the new panther.

78_Tahiti
03-20-2012, 05:04 AM
As you are prolly aware of, every hull reacts a little different to changes. That being said, I think you need to get a baseline. GPS the speed it gets now, then play with the ride plate a little. Get some video we can look at, to see how wet its riding. After we see how optimum your setup is now, we can explore other things that may help you reach your goals! Sure looks like a lot of fun!

David
03-20-2012, 06:26 AM
David I think I married a Panther
I knew someone would bite in that one!!! lol

wolfie
03-20-2012, 09:14 AM
David I think I married a Panther

I must have married and Aggressor then!!! :biggrin:

David
03-20-2012, 09:27 AM
I must have married and Aggressor then!!! :biggrin:
And then another one gets thrown out there!!! LOL
:whip::zdrool: :7_4_11:

I apologize treeman... We have a bad habit here of going off on ~T 's

Sleek Freak
03-20-2012, 11:59 AM
sorry treeman my bad.. I got confused -- I married a Cougar not a Panther. :4_12_2:

wolfie
03-20-2012, 01:46 PM
sorry treeman my bad.. I got confused -- I married a Cougar not a Panther. :4_12_2:

:4_1_72:

Me too Treeman!!! My apology for going off topic, unfortunately, it's what I do best!! Usually it's aimed at Jason, but I gave that up for lent.

David
03-20-2012, 02:04 PM
:4_1_72:

Me too Treeman!!! My apology for going off topic, unfortunately, it's what I do best!! Usually it's aimed at Jason, but I gave that up for lent.

lmao

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-20-2012, 06:47 PM
Trust me Treeman, I arnt lookin forward to easter.... keep us posted, that float looks like a good time!

roblock
03-20-2012, 08:12 PM
best i can do right now enjoy

I remember seeing those units when I was gathering info about Panther pumps... I thought it was pretty wild to have a 350 V8 in such a small package, but other jet skis have that kind of HP these days too.

Sleek Freak
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
Treeman how bout showing us a picture of the inside ( engine and pump ) ? I've never seen one like yours looks like a lot of fun.

wolfie
03-21-2012, 09:24 AM
With the length, size, and weight of that ride, I would imagine that having a Panther might be a good thing. That being said, I believe Jet Boat Performance has something new for Panthers to wake them up. It looks like a handful of fun to me!!! I would love to see you with your ride and Steve with his little wet bike out on the lake together!!! What a collection of watercraft that would be!!

78_Tahiti
03-21-2012, 02:03 PM
The V-8 WetBike thing kind of reminds me of the Boss Hog of Harleys! I wonder if you could put a set of Ape Hanger Bars on it!

wolfie
03-21-2012, 03:31 PM
The V-8 WetBike thing kind of reminds me of the Boss Hog of Harleys! I wonder if you could put a set of Ape Hanger Bars on it!

:4_1_72:

treeman
03-21-2012, 05:31 PM
Treeman how bout showing us a picture of the inside ( engine and pump ) ? I've never seen one like yours looks like a lot of fun.

will do once i get it heres a couple off site.

try this too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEJEUtMYCY

treeman
03-21-2012, 05:40 PM
heres a couple more

David
03-21-2012, 08:42 PM
That looks like it would be a blast! VORTEC SBC even!

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-21-2012, 08:49 PM
You are on to something there Treeman! Its four stroke, it won't hurt manitees, its wickedly overpowered.... and could easily be made more so! I guess those eighties engineers werent so stupid after all...

Sleek Freak
03-21-2012, 08:58 PM
that would be fun to tinker on. how many are around?

jetboatperformance
03-22-2012, 07:39 AM
Treeman , Thanks for sharing the pics and info on that little hotrod, We were approached a while back by a dealer who was selling those craft to study perhaps retrofitting our Mixed flow conversion , we have be servicing, repairing and modifying Panther and Maritech jets for years and my son and I pioneered the Mixed flow conversion in several years back . We are currently putting final touches on yet another kit at this writing , the new Mixed flow kits will feature Super Flow Bowls and larger more effeciant steering and frim units... Good Luck with Your craft and Welcome to the boards Tom

treeman
03-31-2012, 03:56 PM
:happy2::happy2::happy2::happy2::happy2:Its here got delivered yesterday:happy2::happy2::happy2::happy2::happy2:


did a little cleaning and looking everything over all in all pretty much just like described and showed in the pictures unfortunately have to wait on some paper work before i can put it in the water so havent tested it out yet.

thanks for the info from everyone and jet boat performance i did get on youre site and checked it out might go that route a little later need to do some tinkering with first to see what i can get out of this thing and
" BOSS HOSS " of jet ski is exactly what i thought about the first time i saw this thing.

once i get to the water i will post some #s thanks again to everyone as im sure i will have some more questions soon...

"THE ADVOCATE"
03-31-2012, 04:49 PM
"Boss Hoss" definately makes a good name for that rocket!

David
03-31-2012, 05:04 PM
Definitely "Crotch Rocket"!!!

78_Tahiti
03-31-2012, 08:47 PM
Can't wait to see pictures of that thing in action! With a "Hybrid Mixed Flow" Tail section, that little boat could be scary fast!

treeman
04-25-2012, 09:13 PM
ok managed to finally get the paperwork done headed to the water put in on st. johns river had a long no wake zone (DAMM MANATEE):41616-4::41616-4:.anyway checking exhaust and all gauges noticed after about 5 mins my temp was about 175* about 10 mins later got to safe operating speed cracked the throttle open and as quick as i did the temp needle went up just as quick pegged my gauge at 220* went right back to idle and temp stayed arround 200* hit throttle again back to 220* turned arround and idlle all the way back to ramp pulled it on trailer and went home...

treeman
04-25-2012, 09:19 PM
got back home after long weekend put ski on waterhose at house started and ran it about three mins of running gauge was reading 175* water was coming out of exhaust checked temp therenever got ove 110* could put my hand on motor and even exhaust not running hot wicked throttle couple of times pegged 220* again motor still cool to touch anyway sorry for long story but swapped out temp sending unit 10$ part fixed the problem....

David
04-25-2012, 09:26 PM
Good to hear you figured that out before spending money chasing something else. Good job man!!!

treeman
04-25-2012, 09:31 PM
back to the water cooling all straight gauges all good......except tachometer dead no movement damm cant get a break oh well handy gps working wfo=50 mph did several passes diff directions 50 topped out from idle to half throttle jumps strong 30 to 40 even to 50 then stop do it again full throttle almost seems the same like i got no more pass half throttle maybe a little more cavitation out of the hole at wfo throttle....anyway was told 60mph i was expecting 60mph and i ned to run 70 so i would only need 10 more but now starting at 50 and still needing 70 dam have to make uo 20mph that way nobody has to do the math....so tom i need to talk to you about some help and find out what i should hope for by adding youre mixed flow upgrade and some if any other areas that may help

oh yes did look at carb and throttle to make sure im getting wfo cause i know someone will put that out there....

78_Tahiti
04-26-2012, 12:14 PM
sounds like your getting there! Some video of how this craft rides at speed will help a great deal! May just be a wire unplugged for the tach. We need to know what RPM's your getting at WFO to know what kind of power the pump is absorbing! Try adjusting the ride plate up 1 notch and see if it stille planes ok, without porpusing. RPM will tell a lot.